鈥溌槎勾� Talks鈥� hosts top professionals from different sectors of the lumber and building material industry to share their expertise, with a heavy emphasis on practical, tactical strategies to help you serve your markets and grow your business.
听is the CEO of听, a digital marketing agency that serves the 麻豆传媒 industry. In this episode, Beth discusses the importance of social media in our digital age, which content formats perform best on different platforms, content ideas for 麻豆传媒 dealers, and why individuals in your company should be utilizing LinkedIn.
Tune in to this episode if you want a better understanding of how social media affects your business, ways to use it, and creative ideas for content.
Please send all podcast inquires to sally@lbmjournal.com
Watch this conversation and more great content from 麻豆传媒 journal via our YouTube channel听
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Prefer to read about it instead? Take a peek at the transcript below:
(Editor鈥檚 note: Transcript is AI-generated and may include some errors.)听
Sally Traxler-Lacey听
Welcome to 麻豆传媒 talks social media. I鈥檓 Sally Lacey, the Social Media Manager for 麻豆传媒 journal, and every other week, I have conversations with lumber dealers from around the country about how they鈥檙e using social media to grow their business. I hope you stick around, because it鈥檚 time to get social.
听
Sally Traxler-Lacey听
Beth, is it? Oh, I鈥檓 gonna get this right. I usually have to, like, say it once before I get it right. Pop Nico. PopNikolov, hey.
听
Beth PopNikolov听
That was really good. You even had the, like, kolov, like, that was, like, a really good Slavic ending that was incredible.
听
Sally Traxler-Lacey听
Welcome to 麻豆传媒 talks social media.
听
Beth PopNikolov听
I鈥檓 so excited. I鈥檝e been waiting for the invite. I鈥檓 really pumped. Big fan, really, yeah, oh my gosh. I love that you guys are doing. I I really believe in what you鈥檙e doing, and hearing the conversations that you鈥檝e had with other people, and hearing how social is, the reputation of social as a whole is changing. And so I was, yeah, I鈥檓 really excited to be here.
听
Sally Traxler-Lacey听
Thanks for having me totally and yeah, like when I first started this, you were definitely one of the guests that popped into my mind first, because this will just be such, like, a tangible episode, I feel like, with really, just like concrete things that people can do and strategies and all this stuff. So, yes, good stuff. Would you like to introduce yourself? And venveo,
听
Beth PopNikolov听
Sure. So my name is Beth PopNikolov I am the CEO of Venveo. Venvo is a digital marketing agency that specializes in building materials. So that means everyone we work with is either a manufacturer, dealer, distributor, retailer, reseller, installer, in some way they interact with building materials, and we focus specifically in the digital space. And what that means is that basically anything that you do online, we can help with, and we really believe in align between marketing and sales, in making marketing that matters and matters for bottom line, which is why I鈥檓 excited about our conversation, because social is often put in the bucket of cute and like patted on the head and feeling like A little bit extra, and hearing like I said, hearing the conversation change, knowing the impact and ROI that it can have. So I鈥檓 excited,
听
Sally Traxler-Lacey听
So let鈥檚 get right into it. All right, marketing that matters. Tell me why social media matters.
听
Beth PopNikolov听
So there are these anecdotes for ages. For decades, there has been some stat floating around of how many touch points it takes with your customer to turn a prospect into a purchasing customer. You know, I think 25 years ago, it was probably like six touch points, eight touch points, and that meant you were probably knocking on their door, showing up at their business, like their physical business location, or you are at a networking event, or you sent them something in the mail, or maybe you gave them a phone call. And what I鈥檝e actually read recently is that it鈥檚 as high as, like in the 50s, like 50 plus touch points, oh my gosh. G to be and building materials specifically, which I feel like anytime I鈥檝e said that in front of people in our industry, you just watch them every all the heads nod and be like, yeah, that like nod and kind of sink really, as they鈥檙e like, no. That feels right well, and part of that is because of the increased competition, right? Just the amount of touch points in general that we all have every day from brands that are both in the B to C, B to B world, just the amount of information coming at us, it requires significantly more from any one individual to actually make an impact. Okay, so that鈥檚 kind of point 1.2. Is, I think social is an important part of that conversation, because it is now part of that natural stream, that natural environment where those touch points happen. The average person spends over four hours a day on social media. That鈥檚 like adults. That鈥檚 not oh gosh. That鈥檚 not just teenagers, right? Like, that鈥檚 adults like that is the average person spends over four hours a day. And that means that if your customer was in a room for four hours a day, and you could walk in that room anytime you wanted, and they would hear you, they would see you. They would be able to ask you questions. You would write all me, all of the checks if I had the keys to that room. That鈥檚 how we need to see social media. It is where your customer is spending a significant amount of time. So you have the you have a exponentially increased opportunity to be in front of them, far more than email, far more than trade shows, far more than even on site job or on job site visits, work trainings or anything like that. And it is where they expect to be able to learn about you get to know, you understand, you understand your product. Us. That鈥檚 why I really believe in social is because it鈥檚 just where the conversation happens, and it is an absolutely necessary part of any sales growth path.
听
Sally Traxler-Lacey听
Yeah, how would you say social media differs on the B to B side, from B to C in terms of content,
听
Beth PopNikolov听
it鈥檚 a really good question, and it鈥檚 actually becoming harder and harder to answer that question, because the lines are more and more blurred between what works in B to B and what works and B to C. So as an example, you still often will have a single individual in content for B to B. So for the lumber dealer world, it is extremely reasonable to have someone on there and on your social media post who is potentially talking through some of your products or answering questions. Of, hey, we off. We are getting a lot more questions these days about citing and cladding that鈥檚 fire rated. Let me walk you through four of the products that we have, where their best instance is, or what their fire rating is, or where they work best in your region, or things like that. That is a really helpful piece of content, because you鈥檙e not just pushing and selling and promoting. You鈥檙e like, Hey, come on down. You鈥檝e got fire rated siding. Like it鈥檚 a flash sale. 20% off. That鈥檚 not helpful content, the idea of what we talk about, the way we talk about it, and it鈥檚 a real word and it sounds really annoying is infotainment. So it鈥檚 like information and entertainment. And I get I like, cringe every time I have to say that word. It is a real word. Google and all of the other spell checkers will yell at you if you try to hyphenate it. Love to I鈥檝e never heard of that, and that鈥檚 why it鈥檚 a blurred line, because that鈥檚 also what works in B to C and in B to B, because it鈥檚 individual humans that are watching it. So you鈥檙e not, you know, you鈥檙e not lumber dealer of South Virginia, southwest Virginia marketing to a builder of southwest Virginia, like it鈥檚 not the businesses that are on social media, it鈥檚 the individuals. And so you are. There鈥檚 this human element, and that鈥檚 why, that鈥檚 why it feels a little confusing. You do want to, you know, you want to, you want to be professional. You want to share information and create infotainment that is relevant to your pro audience. You don鈥檛 want to be on there doing Tiktok dances, then that鈥檚 a real thing, unless you鈥檙e like, do you do one in a year with your owner, who looks goofy, but you can still trust and believe him, and he everybody knows that it鈥檚 a joke and, like, kind of not serious. Great. This is the number one idea that you have of how you think you鈥檙e going to sell more lumber. Probably not right? So that鈥檚 again, like, it鈥檚 a little bit more of a blurred line. We often say, like, let鈥檚 think about the type of content that you find really interesting, and what is the professional, you know, lumber dealer, or B to B version of that, but it, at the end of the day, will look relatively similar?
听
Sally Traxler-Lacey听
Yeah, totally. I really liked that example of like, Hey, we鈥檝e heard a lot of people saying this about this one product, and really like, have it, using social media for what it is, is a back and forth, yeah, which, you know, just just grows, like a tighter audience. And, yeah, I mean, I have brands that I follow that like I鈥檓 really inspired by, where their companies and they just make great content, and they just, they鈥檙e answering all my questions for me on social
听
Beth PopNikolov听
Yeah, back and forth is a really great way to explain it. It鈥檚 like, it鈥檚, you imagine having a conversation if someone called and said, Hey, I鈥檓, you know, I鈥檝e had homeowners or building owners ask for fire rated siding. You鈥檙e not going to respond by I鈥檓 so glad you called. We have a flash sale. Buy one, get one free. Also, it comes in red like which is sometimes how we treat social media, we treat it like this very odd, sterile, non human, interactive piece. You would want to have a really good, informative, educational, expert conversation with them, because that鈥檚 why they called you, you as the dealer, are the expert. So we just need to take that, that conversation, or that positioning and posturing, into your social Yeah,
听
Sally Traxler-Lacey听
And I think accepting that is sometimes what鈥檚 going to allow these businesses to, like, break free from that really boxy professional kind of form of doing things. Because say some Yeah, somebody asks you a question, you you鈥檙e going to respond by, like being direct about it and coming on and maybe showing your face and all that kind of stuff. We鈥檒l talk maybe content formats, like, what are some that you really recommend, or what like algorithmic that do really well? And also, what are some examples of maybe some pieces of content in our industry that you see doing well right now, and this can be on any platform.
听
Beth PopNikolov听
Yeah, that鈥檚 a great question. So I think any platform is important because there鈥檚 different types of content that will perform better or worse based on platform. So Facebook, believe it or not, is still pretty prevalent amongst contractors and pros. I will say it鈥檚. That鈥檚 depending on the demographics, because millennials, in general, millennials are somewhere between like 2943 something like that. I鈥檓 sure that that鈥檚 not the exact right start and stop, but it鈥檚 close. They are like, Instagram is our jam. So Facebook or Instagram, it鈥檚 really it鈥檚 video and it鈥檚 short form video, so 90 seconds or less, maybe two minutes, if you have got something just super compelling to say, but it鈥檚 got a, you know, you want to keep it tight. And the one of the parts that we鈥檝e been preaching for a really long time related to that is it can be done on your phone, and it can be done in one shot, like we don鈥檛 need to overthink it. It is, you know, like that exact example of, if you have products that you鈥檙e walking through, or something cool is happening and you want to shoot it, there鈥檚 no need to overthink production and equipment and, you know, post production, editing time and all of that. It鈥檚 actually been more raw and authentic the more it will perform. I have this really cool picture from from the builder show this year that I鈥檓 dying to put up at some point, which is a, there鈥檚 this film crew that鈥檚 part of a construction team is there. They鈥檙e at one of the booths. And the film crew, this guy, the cameraman, has a very, very expensive camera in his hand, but he鈥檚 holding it by his side while he鈥檚 shooting on his iPhone. Oh, interesting time and a place, right? Like, yeah. I was like, I鈥檓 like, they鈥檙e gonna post that right now. Like, maybe he did, like a live stream, or did a story or something like that, but I it was one of the most compelling images I鈥檝e seen, because I was like, oh, and I even went up to him afterwards, and I was like, listen, sometimes I say things a lot, and I just want to make sure that I鈥檓 right. This is one of those things of like, your phone is perfectly acceptable. I was like, the shot of you holding this. I mean, it was like a five figure camera. These were not amateurs. It was a very nice camera. It was really pretty seeing him hold it and then shoot on the phone. It just, it says everything in that moment. So, short form video, don鈥檛 overthink it. Do it in one shot. You know, just answer a question, FAQs, whatever, and then LinkedIn is really it鈥檚 going to be the copy now LinkedIn, for most dealers, you鈥檙e going to be speaking to the owner of a large builder, or a large GC or something, a large GC firm, something like that, if you鈥檙e really targeting contractors, LinkedIn is not for you. That鈥檚 not where your customer is, or at least LinkedIn. It鈥檚 not for you to reach your customers. It鈥檚 long form content. It鈥檚 here鈥檚 the thing about how you do this thing better? Or here鈥檚 a here鈥檚 a case study and how we break it down. It鈥檚 super detailed, super specific, very in the moment. It is not a low level of effort to write those content pieces. I actually think that Instagram and Facebook are way more approachable. YouTube is really big. Anything that you put on Facebook or Instagram, from a short form standpoint, could be pushed into YouTube shorts. YouTube shorts is 90 to 60 seconds, though, I think it might even be only 60 seconds at this point, so you鈥檇 have to overlap there.
听
Sally Traxler-Lacey听
Okay, I didn鈥檛, didn鈥檛 realize that about YouTube, okay, that was all really, really great. I also noticed your new posts on YouTube or on LinkedIn. I have been loving your videos. I鈥檝e been putting out thanks. And I鈥檝e been seeing that a lot on my LinkedIn feed is people, well, not even just on my feed, but people talking about video being pushed more and more and just being more popular on LinkedIn. And at first I was like, no, like, this is not, this is not without video supposed to be like, I don鈥檛 want to go through a video feed on
听
Beth PopNikolov听
Have you gotten linked into the have you gotten sucked into the like, the short form videos on LinkedIn app, on the app. No, I haven鈥檛. It is so frustrating. I鈥檓 like, This is not I would No, I didn鈥檛 come here to lose time. I came here to learn, and now it鈥檚 45 minutes later, like they know what they鈥檙e doing.
听
Sally Traxler-Lacey听
Yeah. So at first I was kind of like, Wow, no. But then when it鈥檚 in my feed and it鈥檚 people that I鈥檓 following, I鈥檓 more interested. And really the information that you put it out in the way you do is really just kind of captivating. So compliments to you. Yes, of course, I appreciate that. So yeah, I was something fun that I thought that we could do. Speaking of like content is maybe like brainstorming a couple of different pieces that 麻豆传媒 dealers can do.
听
Beth PopNikolov听
I love this question, by the way. This is such a great idea. Okay, so there鈥檚 100 things, and for dealers, it can it鈥檚 a little tricky because it鈥檚 not your exact product. So I recognize, for dealers, a lot of the time you are walking the line between. I know I need to create content. I don鈥檛 want to just repurpose the content that the manufacturer is giving me, because a lot of the times that might be very produced and just, you know, it鈥檚 excellent for brochure. It鈥檚 excellent for your website. It鈥檚 what you need to literally sell. It kind of collateral to put in somebody鈥檚 hand. Not excellent for an Instagram. GRANT post is just not going to perform as well. So I reckon I say all of that just to caveat, we understand the struggle. One of my favorite videos I鈥檝e ever seen is it鈥檚 from like 1999 it is a it鈥檚 from advantag flooring, and they have two gentlemen who are like, in their 40s or 50s, like these are not young, nor extremely fit dudes, and they鈥檝e got advantage flooring, and they have a competent like a competitor, and they鈥檝e just set up between two cement blocks and they鈥檙e jumping on it, and the competitors breaks and advantax doesn鈥檛. And again, these are, like, very average, potentially mildly above average, dudes who are doing this, and it鈥檚 like, they鈥檙e like, the sales reps or something that are doing it. That video took them, I would imagine, let鈥檚 say, even with setup, 10 minutes. Let鈥檚 say it was a half an hour. I mean, it might have been a half an hour. They had to come up with the idea and, like, get the blocks. I don鈥檛 know. It is a 10 second video. It is one of the most impactful things I鈥檝e ever seen, because you鈥檙e like, I get it. You don鈥檛 have to write a lot of really jazzy copy that you might worry about getting approved or not approved by a manufacturer. You could even have multiple sub flooring products in your dealer, like in your dealer location. You鈥檙e not saying the other ones that you have aren鈥檛 good, right? You use one of the competitors that you don鈥檛 stock, that would be the best idea. Don鈥檛 don鈥檛 come, don鈥檛 pit people against each other, but you鈥檙e showing a unique product. This is a product that we have look how great this product is, especially if it鈥檚 a new product that you just started stocking, because stocking is a very expensive investment if you are going to stock a product, that means you鈥檝e got to know that you鈥檙e going to move that product. I think it is like not overthinking. It is the is the end result of what I鈥檓 saying. What is the quickest, most impactful, quick, like thing that could be captured really briefly, of one of the main reasons that you would use something, and maybe if, and if you can compare it to another, to one of the competitors that wouldn鈥檛 be able to meet the same standards. I think something like that is so doable with whoever you have in your location. You鈥檙e not bringing anybody in worrying about voiceovers or jazziness or dropping it from the top of a fire truck, right? Like this is very, very doable stuff, and gets the message across. And is, like, super captivating. Creativity
听
Sally Traxler-Lacey听
is so big, and I think just going with your gut is part of the creative process. And like, I was scrolling through Instagram, I scroll through Instagram feeds sometimes to get ideas, to see new audios, and they鈥檙e just like, the most crazy, weird trends that go on. Like, I don鈥檛 know if you see these trends, but they鈥檙e, it鈥檚 and businesses are doing these too now. And it鈥檚 just like, how did somebody even come up with this? But then it goes viral, and it just has been reinforcing, for me, like to just kind of go with your gut on creativity, and as long as you think it鈥檚 okay for your business, then you should go ahead with that.
听
Beth PopNikolov听
So I think that鈥檚 really relevant. I would say one thing that I don鈥檛 think dealers do enough is create content that their customers will just think is funny or like, resonate with like they鈥檙e in every industry, like every profession. There鈥檚 like, meme culture that is now part of every profession. There鈥檚, there are like, you know, there鈥檚 entire accounts, accounts on Facebook and Instagram dedicated to like marketing agency memes. And if you鈥檙e not a marketing agency, don鈥檛 look at them, because it鈥檚 dark, right? But there鈥檚 same for like, there鈥檚 contractors. There鈥檚 an entire Facebook page that we used to manage that it, we grew the following by, like, I don鈥檛 know, 1020, 30,000 followers in an insanely short amount of time. This is because it was all around meme culture. It was all about, we would post funny memes about, like, you know, what it looks like when OSHA is not there, and what it looks like when OSHA is there, and just different stuff that it鈥檚 not funny to not talk, you know, to be unsafe. It is really funny in the contractor world to just all of the random, wild things that happen, just funny memes and stuff like that. Like the trend where there鈥檚 like this beautiful orchestra music in the background, of like, what you think is going to happen, and then it like, goes into this ugly recorder doing the same thing, of like, what the reality is. I mean, I think if I were a dealer, I would do something about that. Of like, when the homeowner says they鈥檙e going to DIY, and then when the contractor shows up to take over, when they quit, something like that, like what the homeowner thinks is going to happen versus what actually happens. I mean, actually happens. I mean, there鈥檚 so many possibilities like that. Would people would go nuts over that type of content, nuts. You would go nuts over it. Someone, please, somebody say that and then tell Sally that you did it. Yes, you鈥檙e not dogging on anybody. You鈥檙e not disparaging anyone. It is something that you could do probably pretty quick. Just with trending audio, people would go nuts, because shares and saves are like the Holy Grail. That is the ultimate. Like, I love it when we get comments, I love it when we get likes, I love it when we get followers. When we check the analytics and we see that people shared the content that we create, either for ourselves or for a client. That鈥檚 how we know we鈥檙e like, oh my gosh, we did it. We did a thing, if it鈥檚 good enough to get shared. So you for you to send us. I want to be like, Look at this. This is so cool. This is so funny. This is so interesting. We should buy this. We should work with them, whatever. That鈥檚 how you know.
听
Sally Traxler-Lacey听
You鈥檝e you鈥檝e really hit it, yes, 100% because that鈥檚 why people are going on there, right? They鈥檙e going on there for a level of entertainment, say, an 麻豆传媒 dealer doesn鈥檛 have a social media manager, how and there was small and they maybe only have, like, an hour a week to kind of sit down and think about their social media presence. What Are there any things that you would recommend that they do in that hour to, like, build out a content calendar or a content strategy. How would what would be the best use of that hour for them?
听
Beth PopNikolov听
That鈥檚 such a good question, because that鈥檚 the case for so many people. So my recommendation would be to give yourself, like, if you you鈥檙e Ground Zero. I鈥檝e never done anything, or we鈥檝e tried and had fits and starts. The thing that we preach the most about social is when people ask us what should be doing, or how often should we be posting? It鈥檚 consistency. It鈥檚 way more important that you鈥檙e posting once a week or twice a week or once a month, if that鈥檚 the thing that you feel like you can do regularly, than you get super excited or super anxious. You鈥檙e like, God, never post. And then you post once a week for four weeks, and then you don鈥檛 go and then you ghost it for six months, because it鈥檚 not your job, like it is so reasonable. Why that doesn鈥檛 happen? I literally run a digital marketing agency, and the amount of times that I鈥檓 like, Oh man, we just, we got off it because we are doing it for everybody else. It鈥檚 such discipline. So I would say, don鈥檛 try to get into a room and be like, I鈥檓 going to post something tomorrow. I would give yourself three weeks, and like, in week one, I would make sure it鈥檚 you and one other human, because you鈥檙e creating accountability. And you say, Okay, I need and you give that human a job. Hey, you鈥檙e going to go talk to our sales team. I want to know 10 questions that they got from our customers in the last six months. Nice. And I don鈥檛 care if it鈥檚 actually the last six months, it鈥檚 just whatever 10 questions come up that that customers ask all them all the time. So then that person is going to come back with, let鈥檚 say you have two sales people. They鈥檙e coming back with 20 Questions. Some will have overlap. You鈥檙e probably gonna have 15 different questions that鈥檚 content like that is just square one, ground zero. So next, next day, you鈥檙e going to decide how the next week, how many times can we post in a given week? Okay, we鈥檝e got 15 ideas here. We鈥檙e going to run through these. We鈥檙e going to create some really quick videos for them, and let鈥檚 say, let鈥檚 do twice a week. So that鈥檚 going to get us seven weeks worth of content. Now you鈥檝e now you鈥檝e got a cadence where you鈥檙e like, Okay, the next time we get together, we鈥檙e going to have our phone because we鈥檙e not going to overthink it. You can get a little lav mic if you want to, that all the little influencers hold, or you don鈥檛 have to your mic. Your iPhone mic will work until you have really decided you鈥檙e going to invest in this. And the next time you sit down and you鈥檙e like, you鈥檙e going to ask me all these questions, then you鈥檙e going to start the video. They ask you a question, they start the video, you answer it, you stop the video. And you do that 15 times. Then you write the posts, and then you schedule them all at once. This is the real key, so maybe that has to happen next time, but you batch schedule them so that your schedule in a given week doesn鈥檛 depend on whether or not you have time to upload it. And then if you鈥檙e anything like me, you鈥檙e like, maybe that should have, like, an extra word. Maybe that should be, there鈥檚 too many exclamation points. Like, let鈥檚, you know, we鈥檝e got to have like, more let鈥檚 put more words, less words, whatever you schedule them all in whatever tool that you want, and you just let it roll. It鈥檚 really important check back, make sure they went live. Interact. If there鈥檚 any engagement, try to interact with other profiles. Like there鈥檚 all sorts of extras that you鈥檙e going to do to get extra oomph out of your efforts. Most importantly is engagement with other people, so that they鈥檙e seeing you and all sorts of stuff. If you get comments respond, but like that is bare bones, you can get seven weeks of content in three weeks, and I think it鈥檚 totally fine and important to pace yourself and not feel like I have to get it all out and all done tomorrow, because that鈥檚 how we really quickly just give up or have something else that feels significantly more urgent, and we didn鈥檛 have a plan of like, how do we make sure that it happens? And then once you get ahead, it鈥檚 a lot easier.
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Sally Traxler-Lacey听
So would you recommend that they have well, there鈥檚 a couple of different ways that you can schedule content. You can invest in a scheduler, which are easy to use. If that鈥檚 not even an option, you can also schedule through the. Apps themselves. I find those to be a little bit more finicky, just because it鈥檚 not as like, visually easy to look at and conceptualize, you know, when you have posts and stuff going on. But I love that, because that鈥檚 a great answer for just because those those questions are like, directly for your customers. Yeah. Instead of it being like, trying to reach more and more people, it鈥檚 like, here鈥檚 content for our our foundation, the foundation of our business. So that鈥檚 that鈥檚 awesome in terms of metrics, we don鈥檛 want to get like, super complicated with it for for people to kind of measure how they鈥檙e doing on these social platforms. Do you have, like, one to two things that they can look at and see if their content is even kind of performing well and like, what do those what do those metrics like, mean? You know,
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Beth PopNikolov听
So if you鈥檙e starting from ground zero, you I would just say like number one is give yourself time. It does take. It takes time to build a following, especially in our industry, because we鈥檙e likely not going to do something that鈥檚 going to go viral. We talk about that a lot with ourselves and with our clients of if we鈥檝e created content that goes viral 90% of the time, it means we are actually so interesting that we鈥檙e not interesting enough for a customer. Doesn鈥檛 mean we never want to go viral. But that鈥檚 not, that鈥檚 not the goal, right? Millions, even 10s of 1000s of views, is not really the goal. What we want to do is create things that are adding value and creating loyalty, creating trust and building relationships with our customers and with our future customers. Period, we also see that actually posting regularly is a great recruiting tool for dealers, because it鈥檚 letting potential employees get to know you a little bit. So I say that because there might be anecdotal feedback that you鈥檙e going to get that is going to come a little faster than you know, you suddenly have 1000s of followers, or you鈥檙e suddenly getting 1000s of views, or something like that. I would listen for the feedback, because if you start posting regularly, your customers are going to see it. Your people are going to share it with their customers. You鈥檒l start to hear people when they come into your location, or they come into the store, they call you, they鈥檙e going to mention it and say, like, Hey, I saw you guys did this. This is really cool. If that view, that video that they saw, got 10 views, but your customer came in and said, This is really cool. That鈥檚 a pretty solid win. And I鈥檓 going very low level here, right? Like, this is, if you do nothing and you don鈥檛 know what to do, and you鈥檙e just starting out, let鈥檚 say you have some level of social following, and you鈥檝e been doing it pretty consistently, and you鈥檙e trying to up your game or do a little bit more. I mentioned it before, but I honestly think it鈥檚 the saves and the shares are the and the DMS are the number one thing that we are after, and it is a lot more difficult to get DMS and saves and shares than it is to get likes and comments. I鈥檇 also take a look at, I think impressions are an absolute vanity metric, like, I don鈥檛 think that they鈥檙e really something to hang your hat on. The one thing that it does tell you is, does Instagram or does LinkedIn, think that other people are going to like it? That鈥檚 the only way that I would really start to look at it. So sometimes we鈥檒l see our impressions on our content specifically will go way up or way down, and we鈥檒l spend a little time looking at that content, saying, Okay, did it go way up because it was too generally interesting. Sometimes you just post stuff and it鈥檚 funny or anecdotal, or how you know, if it鈥檚 got stats, like people love data and stuff like that, or were we really in front of our audience because we were talking about something really specific? So that would tell us, we know that we were hitting the right people. Yeah. That? Does that all make sense? I mean, I could, I could go on, I鈥檓 trying to hit like the highest does, highest of the notes.
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Sally Traxler-Lacey听
There鈥檚 tons of different metrics. I love that beginning piece that you talked about, like people coming in and telling you that they think they鈥檙e doing a good job. Saves and shares. I agree. I think that that means that your content is like, valuable. You know, if people are sharing it, saving it exactly. One that I鈥檓 kind of focusing on is engagement, not necessarily likes, but comments. Yeah, that was kind of my goal for 2025 is to like create a tighter community, and to like connect with our audience more through the content, which then means, you know, them commenting and all that kind of stuff. So one kind of last thing that I wanted to touch on is LinkedIn profiles for individuals. You guys are pretty big on this, right? And I was wondering just how you see like individuals, sales, people鈥檚 owners should be on LinkedIn, and kind of how that ties into an overall company strategy for social media,
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Beth PopNikolov听
100 million trillion. 1,000% yes, yes. Individuals should be on LinkedIn. Individual sales reps should be on LinkedIn and creating valuable thought leader content, you don鈥檛 have to be the literal leader of your organization to create thought leader content, I actually was just on a panel at world of modular talking specifically about building a following and growing sales through thought leadership on LinkedIn, everyone on my panel was basically accidental thought leaders. And thought leaders, like, that鈥檚 kind of a weird word, right? Like, nobody, if you have someone come to be like, I want to be a thought leader, you鈥檙e like, What? No one鈥檚 know what? Right. Nobody steps out of like, I鈥檓 going to be a thought leader. I鈥檓 going to do this. What actually happened is they started posting more content on social, or specifically LinkedIn, and started getting more business just period. Just work completely organically. We鈥檝e been working with individuals for a very long time in especially at the dealer level, actually, to do exactly that. And see, I can鈥檛 explain it. I can鈥檛 explain enough. I mean, I鈥檝e got stats and case studies. The amount of ROI that you get from organic thought leader. Content posting regularly. I mean, really regularly here, like 2345, times a week on LinkedIn, thought leadership that says that tells your customer, or tells your potential customer, I know what I鈥檓 talking about. I鈥檝e got ideas. I鈥檝e done this before. I鈥檓 going to be helpful. I鈥檓 going to be valuable. I鈥檓 going to add to your day. Not just look my product. We鈥檙e so great. Went to this job site. I鈥檓 at a trade show. That鈥檚 not helpful, right? It鈥檚 like, Hey, this is a common thing that we see people run into. Here鈥檚 how we mitigated it recently. Or I just talked to a customer, they were really frustrated. I鈥檝e seen this happen so many times lately. This is happening, you know, how are different pieces of what鈥檚 happening in the economy or geography, or, you know, globally or environmentally? How is all of that happening and impacting your industry? And talking about that, we have seen more sales from thought leadership organic content on LinkedIn than we have from running LinkedIn ads, because you buy from people. So LinkedIn ads, 1,000% believe in it. It is exponentially more successful when you are running it in tandem with someone who has an established profile. Because right when you are finding and interacting with people on LinkedIn, the first thing that you do if somebody tries to connect with you, you go to their profile, right? And you鈥檙e like, are you going to try to book meetings for me? I don鈥檛 know about you, Sally, but that is 42 million connections a week. Are like, Would you like just to book more meetings with Ben? VO, I鈥檓 like, I don鈥檛, but thank you, right? So like, are you just going to try to pitch me or you actually have something to add to have to further me and my career, or offer a genuine solution that I actually really need, or I鈥檓 just gonna, like, learn something from you, or build my network, whatever I can鈥檛 I am so bullish on this. I think it is absolutely exceptional. We as venio, did more revenue from organic LinkedIn posts last year than we did from ads. And by that, I mean, I we post regularly. I do Zach, our founder, does? We have a couple of people across our organization that do regularly, and from people, either in comments or cold DMS, they DM us saying, Hey, I鈥檝e been following you guys forever. I really, I really love your talk, what you鈥檙e doing. I would love to see if we could work together. I think you guys could help me. I mean, these I mean, these are literal things that people say. That鈥檚 not how most cold calls go, right, like that is that tells you how impactful those social posts can be. If I had called that person and I was like, Hey, I think we could help you do I think we could work together. We have done this a bunch of times. They鈥檙e gonna be like, Mark, stop calling me. Like, no, you don鈥檛, you don鈥檛 know me, right? But because they saw me say something over and over and over again, we naturally and organically built trust, and it have we have so now we have clients who are brand new clients, which is typically one of the trickiest times when you鈥檙e in a new client relationship, new customers are the same, where you鈥檙e like, really Razzle dazzling and and tap dancing to make sure they know you did a good job. We really are who you think we are. We really are going to do what you need, and we really do know what we鈥檙e doing. They鈥檙e coming with so much more trust already established into the conversation, because they鈥檝e heard us talk, heard in a sense, but you know, I鈥檓 saying heard us talk about what their problems are, sometimes, for a, you know, for a year, or for six months, or whatever the case might be. It just, it makes an absolute, absolute difference. It鈥檚 just a complete game changer. It goes back to those touch points, exactly.
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Sally Traxler-Lacey听
Yeah, people know that they can get information online, and so they want to do, you鈥檝e said this in a webinar before. They want to do their own research beforehand. So, yeah, just being able, just putting that information out, so that they can, you know, do their own digging. And it鈥檚, yeah, I could see that opening up so many opportunities. Awesome. Thanks for touching on that. Beth. Um. Um, kind of a fun question, as we kind of wrap up. Do you have any, this is more for you know, your social media managers. Do you have any Instagram or maybe LinkedIn accounts that you follow that are like doing a really good job, that are maybe companies or people that that you just want to like throw out there so that people can look up and see just like content, inspiration, like, I can go first. Okay, you go first. I鈥檓 interested. Okay, so on Instagram, there are two that I have in mind that just do that I just love to see their content. The first one is Utah transportation. And then also, I think Washington transportation. It鈥檚 like, randomly, these transportation, I don鈥檛 know, like the gut, like the government road transportation, things like, they just do such an amazing job on Instagram of being funny, doing memes, but they do it. They like put their information into it. So then they鈥檙e doing this silly meme, but at the same time they鈥檙e telling you that this one Interstate is going to be closed, and they get 1000s of 1000s of Yeah, like they鈥檙e, it鈥檚, it鈥檚 insane. So they do such an amazing job. So I鈥檓 going to shout those two out. I think it鈥檚 ws transportation. Then maybe Utah transportation. Then one more is these. I see libraries pop up on my feet a lot.
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Beth PopNikolov听
Oh yeah, libraries are having a moment with their content.
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Sally Traxler-Lacey听
Maybe it鈥檚 like Vancouver library on Instagram, but they make these skits, and it鈥檚 just like they, they鈥檙e just doing such a good job. They made this skit from American Psycho where, like, they鈥檙e showing cards, and he鈥檚, it鈥檚 like the the voiceovers from American Psycho, and like they鈥檙e showing each other their business cards, but they鈥檙e doing, like the different library cards. And it鈥檚 just so good. So those are my two. And if you don鈥檛 have any, that鈥檚 we can segue. But I thought maybe you would,
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Beth PopNikolov听
okay, I鈥檝e got a couple. This is also like, if I, if you ask me, What鈥檚 the name of somebody, if I didn鈥檛 have to tell you, I would be able to tell you. And then the fact that I have to tell you off the top of my head, I鈥檓 like, No, totally. Um, I get that, okay, I wonder if so, like, non industry related first, I wonder if the same people who run the Washington Department of Transportation account run the Yosemite National Park account, because it鈥檚 the same and it is, like, it is always factual, because that鈥檚 important and so funny, so funny. They had this. They had this post the other day where it was like, 10 Ways to be like a beaver, and then on this you swiped, and it said, Why did you swipe?
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Sally Traxler-Lacey听
Oh my gosh.
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Beth PopNikolov听
I was like, yeah, why did I swipe? But, like, their content is just really funny, because they鈥檙e doing a really great job of honestly, their focus is, hey, let me educate you on how to be a really responsible participant at our national park, so that we鈥檙e not littering and we鈥檙e not feeding wild animals and we鈥檙e not getting eaten by bears, and we鈥檙e creating safety and not making admit but also making it so that people who come behind you can have the same experience that you do. If that鈥檚 what they said, you would be like, business. I鈥檓 like, you would be like, Why are you such a nerd? Like, don鈥檛 be such a boring I鈥檓 gonna go have a good time the way that they do it. You鈥檙e like, oh yeah, I want to do that. Like, it鈥檚 just really cool. Okay, so that鈥檚, that鈥檚 non industry. Fire clay tile is one of my absolute favorites from a manufacturer standpoint. So they are handmade ceramic tiles. They鈥檙e based out of California. And why I really like them is because when you think about tile, most tile companies are going to just show, I say, just just show, like, really beautiful bathrooms and kitchens, which, frankly, that鈥檚 who your target demographic is. That鈥檚 what they want to see. I don鈥檛, I mean, I mean, like, just show bathrooms that I would like pay a lot of money, and, you know, probably be willing to break some laws to have that bathroom fireplace tile, because it鈥檚 handmade. And they know that that is really their differentiator. They show their tile being made in the factory with someone painting, and get, like, doing the like, the paint flood into the individual tile pieces, and you get such an appreciation for the level of detail and like, it鈥檚 that you鈥檙e like, that鈥檚 a human hand holding a paint bottle, squeezing paint onto a tile. This is not like, just rubber stamp printed through a machine. It is done so beautifully. And their products are just to die for. They鈥檙e absolutely, absolutely to die for it again, if they just said all the time, we鈥檙e handmade, we鈥檙e different. We do all of these things differently. You would be like, This is really boring, really they show it thing and to show a. Factory for handmade content, for a handmade product that is definitely more expensive than a non handmade product that is still showing a really beautiful, beautiful room, I think, is just it is so, so cool and so interesting. The other one that I love is fine home building. They I talk about them a lot because I literally think their content is so good, it鈥檚 annoying. They just crush it. They do a phenomenal job of being this. Go to resource for the professional community in our industry, for the Pro, for the installer, for the builder, and balance really well between like, targeted, you know, hyper focused, very nation specific, you know, installation or how tos, or whatever that only pros would care about. And, like, really cool, big projects that are just really interesting. I think it鈥檚 they鈥檙e one of my absolute favorites, as far as, like, especially in the in the trade publication world, I think they do really, really cool stuff. Also, there鈥檚, like, 1000 really cool ones. So I鈥檓 really sorry for everybody who I follow and interact with regularly that I鈥檓 not currently thinking about,
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Sally Traxler-Lacey听
that鈥檚 okay. We鈥檙e thinking about, like, ones that we don鈥檛 know personally. Yeah, so there鈥檚 some inspiration just accounts that are doing it really well, and that hopefully we can all just get some inspiration from on just how to be creative, while also getting our message across, because that鈥檚 that鈥檚 what we鈥檙e trying to do. I think, as content marketers, I so appreciate you being a guest on here today and sharing your knowledge with us, and I hope to have you back on someday soon.
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Beth PopNikolov听
This is awesome. You鈥檙e an excellent host. I appreciate it. This is really good time.
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Sally Traxler-Lacey听
Yeah, time. Yes, anything to anything else. Before we close this out?
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Beth PopNikolov听
What we say about social is that if you鈥檙e questioning if you should be on social, your customer doesn鈥檛 question what you鈥檙e doing. There it is where we spend time. I just can鈥檛 I we believe in it so strongly, and have seen phenomenal outcomes from it. Don鈥檛 overthink it, you can definitely make it happen and then tell Sally how great you鈥檙e doing because of her awesome podcast.
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Sally Traxler-Lacey听
Totally.
